[Mishmash] (no subject)

Sun Feb 4 19:05:30 CST 2007

>Hi Ingrid, I hold a gun licence and had to go 
>throught all the safety training. I think this 
>was a good idea but the criminals don't bother. 
>In my first job (1965) in a bank as a teller 
>there was a revolver just sitting in a draw in 
>the head tellers desk. We had to go to pistol 
>practice and shoot balloons but when I asked 
>what the proceedure was if someone robbed us the 
>answer was hand over all they want and NEVER do 
>anything to put anyones safety at risk. It 
>seemed a silly idea to have a gun just sitting 
>around the office but it was policy.

How times have changed. I'd hate to have to carry 
a gun for safety but I should have the right to 
bear arms. I do a bit of target shooting but 
don't use shot guns very often you are right the 
kickback hurts!

>I was told that to wear a rubber foot thong on 
>my shoulder under my jacket and it does help.

The law in Australia makes everyone do the safety 
courses and training before you can get a gun 
licence. This really makes sense to me but all 
the rules and laws doesn't get rid of the illegal 
guns.

Robyne

>I have heard reports about Al Quaida being 
>involved but this is also from the government 
>that said we have to invade Iraq to get rid of 
>the "weapons of mass destruction" which were 
>nonexistent.  I, personally, have not read a 
>real report and thus, I am skeptical.  I don't 
>rule it out, but due to the poor judgment (or as 
>they like to claim: misinformation) on our 
>government's part to invade a country and topple 
>Hussein all for the WMD's, I like concrete, 
>black-and-white proof.
>
>With respect to private citizens and guns, you 
>state that "the Constitution demands it." 
>Actually, our constitution only states that we 
>have a right to bear arms, it doesn't demand 
>that we do.  If it demanded this, then we'd all 
>be toting guns and taking the law into our own 
>hands.  I, too, live in MD (near Baltimore), but 
>most of my experiences with kids and guns was in 
>L.A.  There are a number of people in L.A. who 
>have a gun for essentially the very reason you 
>state, to protect themselves from theft, or in 
>most cases there, rival gangs.  The older 
>sibling (high-school aged) happens to be running 
>in a gang and the parent provides them with a 
>gun (No joke!) and the younger sibling finds the 
>gun.  We had one 1st grader pull it out in 
>show-and-tell.  We had a 7th grader bring the 
>gun to school and show it to the Asst. 
>Principal.  He was supposed to be initiated into 
>the gang that night (daddy was the head, older 
>brother was in jail doing time for shooting a 
>rival gang member) and was scared.  He figured 
>if he showed it to the Asst. Principal he'd get 
>help and that's exactly what he got.  This kid 
>was, hopefully, one of the lucky ones, but many 
>aren't.  I know people in bigger, dangerous 
>cities want to carry a gun for protection, but 
>how many times are they really using them for 
>that?  How often are they mugged?  I'd love to 
>see real data on this.  I'd like to know how 
>many of them have had to pull it out during a 
>mugging.  My gut tells me it's not often.  Also, 
>many should have to go through hours of firearms 
>safety before being allowed to purchase one.  I 
>went through firearms safety in MN with my 
>friends.  Up in Northern MN, it was common for 
>kids to go hunting with their parents, but they 
>made it law that if you were going to shoot a 
>shotgun, you had to get certified.  It made many 
>of us think twice when we fired those shotguns. 
>The kickback hurts!
>
>Ingrid
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:w3hwn at comcast.net>Richard Barth
>To: <mailto:mishmash at mishmash.net>Mishmash
>Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:20 PM
>Subject: Re: [Mishmash] (no subject)
>
>At 05:46 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
>
>>I agree with you, David.  I have yet to see 
>>real proof that Bin Laden had anything to do 
>>with this.  Just because Bush wants to tell us 
>>that Bin Laden and Hussein were behind it, 
>>doesn't make it true.  Bin Laden and Hussein 
>>are/were horrible men, but I believe there are 
>>plenty of others out there hell bent on making 
>>the lives of U.S. citizens miserable.  I'm sure 
>>that these two men weren't exactly sad to see 
>>the tragedy on our land, probably had big 
>>grins, but I think we haven't enough tangible 
>>evidence to say Bin Laden was behind it.  Those 
>>involved may have been Laden wannabes, but that 
>>doesn't mean Bin Laden was the true mastermind.
>>
>
>I have seen little reason to doubt that Al 
>Quaida was behind the 9/11 disaster; every 
>report I've seen on the subject indicates that 
>his organization, and he personally, expected 
>and enjoyed it.  Hussein, of course, had nothing 
>to do with it.  The blather about him being 
>involved with Bin Laden was later shown to be 
>nonsense; he was afraid of the religions 
>radicals in al Quaida were likely to destabilize 
>Hussein's large secular government.  However, I 
>believe the fact that he (Bin Laden) is on the 
>loose today is largely because the U.S. 
>administration was so hell-bent on invading Iraq 
>that they failed to pay full attention to 
>tracking down Bin Laden and company.  Reports 
>here indicate that much of the fighting done in 
>Afghanistan was done by Afghanis, whose warlords 
>had been handed large bundles of money by the 
>CIA to fight for us.  This minimized the need to 
>commit U.S. troops, reduced U.S. casualties, 
>minimized adverse public reaction to the war and 
>left troops and funds free to fight Hussein. 
>This included the "clean-up" phase where Bin 
>Laden was on the run and hiding in caves in Bora 
>Bora.  Apparently nobody thought of the fact 
>that Bin Laden had money of his own, and that 
>the warlords might well refuse to stay bought 
>even if they didn't naturally sympathize with a 
>fellow Muslim. 
>
>>  As for our right to carry guns to protect 
>>ourselves from a rogue government, I'm not in 
>>favor of this at all.
>>
>
>Protecting ourselves from a rogue government is 
>largely the stuff of David Koresh and other 
>screwballs.  Most of the rational arguments I've 
>seen for private possession of guns hinge on two 
>things: first, the Constitution demands it and 
>second, crime against individuals has 
>(reportedly -- I haven't checked the stats 
>myself) has dropped in places where citizens are 
>allowed to carry personal weapons.  You never 
>know whether the guy you're trying to mug is 
>equipped to send you to the Promised Land. 
>OTOH, possession of handguns is totally 
>prohibited in Washington DC except for retired 
>cops and active duty LEOs, and have you read the 
>crime stats for DC lately?  New York City also, 
>while it had not banned handguns while I was 
>growing up there (and Hugh can fill us in if 
>this has changed) makes it very difficult to 
>carry them.  You need a permit that isn't easy 
>to come by.
>
>The other side of the coin is that, as you said, 
>there is a great risk of guns falling into the 
>wrong hands.  We have occasional reports here (I 
>live just outside DC in Maryland) of kids 
>getting hold of the service weapons of cops who 
>just happen to be their parents, and who should 
>know better.  Too many people trust their kids 
>too much, and expect them to act like 
>responsible grownups, even when their parents 
>aren't displaying much in the way of maturity 
>themselves.
>
>>
>>Ingrid
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>
>>From: <mailto:djbrown at tpg.com.au>David Brown
>>
>>To: <mailto:mishmash at mishmash.net>'Mishmash'
>>
>>Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:35 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [Mishmash] (no subject)
>>
>>
>>I remain unconvinced that Bin Laden had 
>>anything to do with 9/11.  There is compelling 
>>evidence that 9/11 was a home grown event 
>>designed to create an environment where the 
>>American people would accept an invasion of the 
>>Middle East.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Many years ago I reacted negatively to Hugh’s 
>>comment that American citizens right to carry 
>>guns was needed to protect them from a rogue 
>>Government.  I am much less convinced that I 
>>was right now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  From: Hugh Gigante
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Always remember there never would have been a 
>>9/11 or an Iraq if bubba had taken Bin Laden 
>>when offered.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Hugh
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>Mishmash at mishmash.net
>>
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>>
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>Richard Barth *** W3HWN(at)ARRL.NET *** Silver Spring, MD
>
>
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