[Mishmash] Can it really be?????
Fred Atkinson
fatkinson at mishmash.com
Tue Jan 8 16:41:30 CST 2008
Hugh,
I share your feelings to some degree. But there are some things that
there will be no justice about without their involvement.
A big part of it is discrimination in the workplace. It was rampant in
the sixties and well into the seventies. And even today, those who are over
fifty are often passed over for jobs they are far better qualified for than
younger people. I heard about an HR person who was very concerned because
the average age in her company was about thirty-six. Her concern was the
additional cost for providing health insurance to their employees. Their
rates go up as they add people [who are older] to their payrolls.
To a large degree, I wish that we could treat people fairly and not have
to rely on the government. In reality, it's not going to happen.
And who is going to intercede when state or local governments abuse
their power? I remember the Rodney King incident. The federal government
had to step in before their was any justice.
It's not that simple a matter. I wish it was, but it's not.
Who regulates corporations that prey on the public? Should the
government just let them rage on with illegal business dealings? I don't
think so.
Always remember that we are set up as a set of checks and balances.
Without those checks and balances, we wouldn't enjoy the freedoms and
securities that we do.
Even with those checks and balances, it isn't always right. Take a look
at the Park Service. They are practically organized crime in the way they
go about acquiring property. If they decide that they want your property
for a national park, they give you less than market value for the property.
If you refuse to sell, they condemn the land so that you are prevented from
using it. And their lawyers hound you until you take less than what it is
worth even if you don't want to sell it. When it comes to the Park Service,
you have no property rights.
Regards,
Fred Atkinson
----- Original Message -----
From: <LCR at rochester.rr.com>
To: "Mishmash" <mishmash at mishmash.net>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Mishmash] Can it really be?????
When people can't agree on something or follow rules laid out by others,
then that causes the government to become involved a big part of the time;
or some "YELL" the loudest, causing the government to step in. Sometimes
it's none of the above they just do it for their interest.
Linda
Here's my take.
The federal government should do nothing but what it is intended to do . .
. mount an army, defend our borders, and establish treatys where instructed.
No department of education, welfare, labor, of whatever else they've dreamed
up to interfere in our lives.
Smoking laws to me represent the peak of government interference in daily
life.
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: GALEHALLOCK at aol.com
To: mishmash at mishmash.net
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Mishmash] Can it really be?????
I've never in my life been able to understand the governments role in
saving us from ourselves. Doesn't anyone in politics smoke? God knows they
drink. So you won't see a ban on bars. Only smoking in them.
I'm one of these rare people who has never smoked and I don't know why
I've never smoked. My entire family smoked. Mother, father (who has a
smoldering cigar etched on his tombstone), 3 sisters (one who's a nun), 2
brothers and nearly every friend. Growing up I thought EVERY home had a
smoke haze on all the windows in their houses. And now at 56, if second
hand smoke is dangerous it's much too late for me. So.........smoke'em if
you gottem.
Gale
(cough cough)
cbower at frontiernet.net writes:
let me be clear once more - this started because of a state law
forbidding smoking anywhere in the whole damn state. i never felt
discriminated against having to go to smoking areas. i never felt
discriminated against if i had to go outside to smoke - even in -0 weather.
i never felt discriminated against not being able to smoke in offices - that
was the decision of the business OWNER. i never felt discriminated against
not being able to smoke in public buildings - i could always go outside, but
ususally didn't bother with smoking unles someone else wanted to. BUT -
when our damn governor (who i didn't vote for and for some reason no one
will admit to voting for - guess it was just people in chicago) decides that
there will be no smoking anyplace, private businesses, private restaurants,
private bars, private clubs (where people pay dues to belong), and no
smoking 15 feet from any door or window (that would include drive-ups in my
own privately owned car) THEN - i feel discriminated against.
you might be interested in the 2 exceptions - a place of business
who's profit is at least 90% from the sale of tobacco (and there are no such
stores as that since the state has put such a huge tax on tobacco that
everyone gets ther's out of state). and this is the one you'd be interested
in: nursing homes - except the smoking must be done in their own private
room. now, the nursing homes are having a fit about that because they had
designated smoking areas where they could keep an eye on the residents.
now, they can't do that. see, these lawmakers just make laws - they don't
care about consequences. when i was working for the census bureau one of
our surveys was on smoking. i did this for 17 years and the responses never
changed - except for the real fanatics (on both sides) - almost everyone
answered that smoking should be allowed in certain areas of restaurants and
in most areas of taverns.
carole
-------Original Message-------
From: LCR at rochester.rr.com
Date: 1/7/2008 5:09:27 PM
To: Mishmash
Subject: Re: [Mishmash] Can it really be?????
My space is just a term that I use for the air i'm breathing in, which
is a few feet from my body.
I have walked off from cigarette smoke and left their space, not
offended though.
I work on the administration side of a retirement home so our laws
are probably tougher on smoking than some places. Half the building is
independent, people just renting apartments with 24 hour reception duty with
meals furnished in the dining room if they choose, the other half are
apartments with people who need a little more care, and have a nurse and
caregivers, although not bad enough for a nursing home, and we are governed
by the New York Health department in that section. We have a few on oxygen
so therefore our rules are even tougher than some companies. It is not an
employer decision in my work place it goes much higher.
I have friends who smoke, it's their choice. I don't go berserk if
someone lights one up. If it begins to bother me I move away. I think it's
bad for your health and those around them, but as I said it's their choice.
There has to be a compromise of some kind or smoker's and non-smokers
would go at each other's throats. Your smoke does effect others, and others
object. Thus a compromise has to be reached. I think you and other smokers
do not agree that the smoker's should be banned to another area and I agree
that does not look like a fairness to smokers but it's the only way that
works now, most employers now and public places do not want cigarette smoke
in their building and the majority now are non-smokers.
I think employer's should take care of it, I agree with you on the
statement that it shouldn't be a law issue.
Carol and Hugh are hilarious today. :-)
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: Carole
To: Mishmash
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Mishmash] Can it really be?????
i just returned from bingo. i was offended by all the very over
weight and sloppy women who were sharing my space. every time one of them
passed me they ran into me because they were taking up more than their
allotted space. i think they should be banned from public places. they are
offensive and are certainly in poor health because of their fat. i also
think they should stay 15 feet away form me as quite a few of them smell
badly because it's hard to keep fat folds clean and if they stay 15' away
they won't be always bumping into me with the possibility of knocking me
down and harming me.
carole
-------Original Message-------
From: Hugh Gigante
Date: 1/6/2008 3:21:15 PM
To: Mishmash
Subject: Re: [Mishmash] Can it really be?????
I was with you until the compromise comment.
I agree with that . . . smokers and non-smokers should be able
to share the
public space they both own.
But what compromise in private places? Since when does someone
have to
compromise with people he or she shares nothing with?
Smoking laws are nothing but freedom restrictions. You can talk
and make
good cases for the benefits, dangers, and whatever about the
habit, but the
minute you let some goverment hack tell you what to do with
private assets,
you're on the road to a socialist state.
An easy test of your agreement with the concept is to pick
another legal
activity, and replace it in any non-smoking statement (like the
sign that
says "smoking prohibited within 15 feet". If, with the
replacement, the
statement makes sense it will for smoking. If not . . .
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: <LCR at rochester.rr.com>
To: "Mishmash" <mishmash at mishmash.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Mishmash] Can it really be?????
>
> I am a non-smoker and the smoke chokes me when someone smokes
in my
> "space"
> but no matter how we feel about smoking, it's still a person's
individual
> right to choose whether they smoke or not.
>
> I believe that most employers are concerned with health
issues and
> insurance costs in making some of their decisions. If you
smoke you can
> be
> sure that you will have health problems in the future. I
believe that
> most
> people who smoke know that, and are aware and it's their
choice that they
> continue to smoke.
>
> I think that Hugh sees it as a non-government issue and the
point of not
> taking more of his rights away, and it is his choice. Looking
at it from
> both sides, Hugh has his right to smoke if he chooses too, I
have my right
> not to be subjected to cigarette smoke. So a compromise
should be worked
> out. Because of the health issue, employers opt for the
smokers to be
> outside and
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Mishmash mailing list
Mishmash at mishmash.net
http://mishmash.net/mailman/listinfo/mishmash_mishmash.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Mishmash mailing list
Mishmash at mishmash.net
http://mishmash.net/mailman/listinfo/mishmash_mishmash.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Mishmash mailing list
> Mishmash at mishmash.net
> http://mishmash.net/mailman/listinfo/mishmash_mishmash.net
>
More information about the Mishmash
mailing list